Zac Wilkerson – Soulful Americana & Country Rock
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There's a particular kind of magic that happens when someone grows up surrounded by music so completely that it becomes less a choice and more a natural extension of breathing. Zac Wilkerson embodies this entirely. Born in Buffalo, Oklahoma—a place so small that the nearest radio station was three miles away—he found himself singing before he could talk, reading music before words, and writing songs by the time he was twelve years old in secret, because early reactions to his juvenile compositions had wounded him enough to keep them hidden.
What emerges from that foundation is something genuinely rare: a soulful Americana voice that refuses to fit neatly into any single box. Wilkerson is a soul rocker from the country, and that contradiction isn't a marketing angle—it's the honest truth of who he is as an artist.
I learned to read music before I could read words.
— Zac Wilkerson
His path to a music career wasn't the typical one. Growing up on a farm in rural Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska before landing in Texas, Wilkerson learned instruments early through his school's music program, picking up trumpet in first grade and guitar at twelve. But music wasn't something he pursued aggressively or with grand ambitions. It was simply what he did, whether he was in a field or in church. His early twenties saw him working as a pastor in Canyon, Texas, leading contemporary worship services while secretly writing songs that wouldn't see public light for nearly two decades.
The turning point came in 2011, almost by accident. Wilkerson was apparently tricked into entering The Blue Light Live Singer Songwriter contest—he laughs about it in the telling—and he won. The prize was a solo acoustic set at Larry Joe Taylor's Texas Music Festival in 2012, one of Texas's most respected Americana events. That single performance cracked open something. It gave him permission, finally, to take the songwriting and performing seriously after years of doing it on the side.
Music was one of those things it didn't take much thought—most of the time it was trying to stop thinking about music to do what I was supposed to be doing.
— Zac Wilkerson
What makes Wilkerson's music resonate isn't technical virtuosity alone, though he's clearly a capable musician. It's the weight of authenticity in his writing. His voice carries genuine soul—the kind that comes from living through something real, from growing up singing gospel in small churches, from years of internal conflict about whether this life of music was something he could actually pursue. When he sings about hearts getting broken and tables turning, you believe it because you can hear it in the grain of his voice.
The sound he's developed is precisely what the roots music world needs right now: a blend of country storytelling, soul-inflected vocals, and rock sensibility that feels neither retro nor forced. Wilkerson isn't trying to be vintage or trendy. He's simply channeling the influences he grew up with—church music, country radio, rock and roll—through his own singular lens. The result is Americana that feels lived-in, genuine, and urgent.
What's particularly striking about talking to Wilkerson is his humility. He doesn't tell the story of his career as a trajectory he engineered. Instead, he frames it almost as something that happened to him, a series of unexpected turns that led him from the pulpit to the stage. Yet there's also a quiet conviction underneath—he couldn't stop writing even when he wanted to, couldn't stop singing even when it seemed foolish. That kind of compulsion, when channeled honestly, produces the best work.
For anyone interested in contemporary Americana that actually means something, that carries real emotional weight and isn't merely aesthetic posturing, Zac Wilkerson deserves your attention. His story and his music are worth discovering fully in the podcast episode, where his generosity as an interviewee shines through. This is an artist who's earned his voice through years of quiet dedication, and now he's finally letting the world hear what he's been writing all along.
when L [Applause] andarn Crash and Burn Hearts get broke tables turn you lose your Le this is the rugged Revival podcast and we are the home of the UK's country Americana and Roots Music community on today's show we've got the very talented Zach Wilkerson Zach's a singer songwriter by bed out of the great state of Texas so welcome to the show Zach great to have you on mate man thanks for having me this is awesome absolutely welcome mate um I think it's always best to kind of hand over to you guys to introduce yourself because I think if I read off your Spotify bio or your website bio it just sounds stale so I think it's always nice that you introduce yourself tell tell folk who you are and perhaps tell everyone about your music as well mate okay well uh I was uh I'm actually not from Texas I'm from Oklahoma I was born in the panhandle of Oklahoma in a little bitty town called buffalo uh I lived in uh Oklahoma Kansas Nebraska uh and then finally Texas before I graduated high school uh and I just uh as far as music goes though um you know I lived in a really small town there was not much to do out there uh but music really came natural um so I started very very early I started singing in church when I was four uh you know here in here in America we have this uh amazing uh tradition of like the old uh you know kind of like the gospel hymn tradition you know and that that just the gospel music uh kind of industry or genre itself that's its own world with all its kind of sub genres and things but I started singing in church at 4 uh my folks said uh basically I just kind of came out singing that it wasn't that that it was just kind of a natural thing you know um I learned to read music before I could read words uh and then I I started playing uh piano about six or seven uh and then I started picking up um you know kind of band instruments uh in uh our little school in Buffalo had a great uh music program and so they got kids playing instruments very early so I started playing the trumpet in uh first grade and uh did that through you know grade and always beg my folks for a guitar uh you know uh music like I said was one of those things it didn't take much thought most of the time it was uh trying to stop thinking about music to do what I was supposed to be doing like you know school workor or something like that uh we worked on a farm and so uh you know I grew up on a farm and and music was something I was always doing even if I was out in the the middle of a field with a radio you know the closest Radio three miles away I was still singing or something you know uh and then all through high school you know that's uh about I was I picked up the guitar uh uh when I was 12 years old and um as soon as I picked up the guitar I got I got just a few kind of chords in my hands and the and the songwriting started pretty much immediately uh and to me it seemed completely natural like uh the thing you would do uh and I just I kind of wrote started writing then um you know my first couple songs you know the first couple songs you write when you're 12 years old uh they're not very good and so uh you know it's funny the first couple songs I wrote they uh I I think I shared them with a couple people and uh you know the reactions were not that great and so what I did was I ended up I didn't want to quit writing uh I couldn't really quit writing it was just always there so what I did was I kind of just uh did it in secret didn't tell anybody I was you know never talked about it and um that went on until uh it was interesting because that went on uh my it's still going on my entire life the songwriting but from that point you know um I my folks uh are very devout in the church you know and so I I there's a lot of music to be played there and also in America you know we have kind of this uh uh this uh what do we call it contemporary worship type thing you know and now it's kind of all over the place but for a long time it seemed like uh see it was very taboo I know you know to have live drums and amps on stage at a church you know uh but I was doing that I did that until let's see the year was uh yeah 2010 so I was 30 and I just started playing my own songs um and I really wasn't even playing them out that much they were one or two one or two friends that I was kind of sharing that I was writing but they weren't I wasn't trying to do anything with these things um and then I was uh I was I I was a full-time pastor at a church in Canyon Texas which was just south of Amarillo and uh which is where my wife is from but uh I was working out there at this church and uh we had you know the Contemporary worship thing and one of the guys well several of the guys that played in my church band they were in a country band and so there were times when we would have a Saturday night service and they would leave directly from my Saturday night service and they would go play a bar they would go play a honky ton you know and uh well uh it was Fourth of July one year and they said hey man we really need a guitar player um our guitar player in our country band he can't make it to this big show we got for Fourth of July you know it's a big cookout celebrate America typee deal uh you know we're big into that stuff over here but uh so I went over there and played this show and uh I guess they really liked what I did and this country band said we know that you work at a church we know you have other responsibilities but do you want to keep playing shows with us and uh I agreed uh it was it was really nice because uh the folks at the church were not you know they weren't sideways at all you know they knew these guys that I was playing with and these were these were good guys so it wasn't like we were out raising hell or whatever we had plenty of fun but uh so I was I was kind of doing double duty I was working at this church and I was really just playing lead guitar uh for this country band in Amarillo a guy named chansy Bernson who's an old friend of mine still love him um and then one night chance and I had been talking about songwriting but we'd never really shared them with each other I mean I I mean I knew his songs I was playing in his band you know but he'd never heard mine and uh he uh in the middle of this show just kind of out of the blue he said hey friends I've got a a special treat for y'all our friend Zach's gonna play some of his songs for you and he handed me his guitar and then walked off stage and uh you know I was I would I'd only been with the band a couple months at this point and I was like what's going on so I turned over my shoulder to look at the the bass player uh Aaron he was my he was the guy I knew the best in the band so I kind of look over my shoulder to look at Aaron to think hey what's going on you know help me out here and he's already off the stage he's about a step from the bar already and the drummer's already gone and I'm like okay so I ended up playing a couple songs and then I got an encore and they asked me to play a third song and uh I found out later that night that uh chansy really had to use the bathroom and uh he kind of panicked is what he told me uh he said he said if I didn't play some songs uh he was probably going to have an accident on stage so he just that's what that was kind of what he thought what's crazy is uh that was uh that was the night uh my friend Casey Barry uh who's uh who's a personality in Texas he's a songwriter uh he does a lot of work booking shows and stuff like that but he's an amillo guy and he was there and he said man I like you know I heard these songs you played I think you know it'd be good for you to start playing your songs you know and I said okay you know I'll you know I'll kind of think about it or whatever but I really had a bad taste in my mouth still from the first time I shared my songs with someone and I thought yeah it's okay I can just kind of sit on these you know and then I put and then I ended up playing a few of them at this bar well I get a call from Casey one night it's a Monday night and he says hey man there's this uh there's this open mic in lck Texas which amarell and lck they're about it's only about uh an hour and 45 minute drive uh which for Texas that's you know that's nothing but uh he said uh you know they've got this little Open Mic it's no no pressure no big deal you know uh he said I think it'd be great for you to go down there play a couple of your songs and just you know meet some other songwriters and he kept saying no pressure no big deal just you know we just I just want to get you into the community community of songwriters we have here and I you know I was appreciative for that so so I thought okay you know but I still wasn't convinced and and then he said uh you know if you go with me tonight I'll drive you down there I'll buy your beer I'll buy your breakfast and I'll drive you home I said all right we you know I I could that's yeah those are terms I can agree to uh but uh so we drove down there and uh when we got in uh that's when I realized it was the qualifying round for the blue light live songwriters contest they have in LC Texas every year uh that year uh that contest has been going on for gosh man close to 20 years now um and really uh lck and you know the the panhandle of Texas has this really interesting relationship with songwriters there's there's not many people out there but a lot of the few people are out there are songwriters it's very interesting it's it's something like the wide open space that just kind of like draws those type of people and there's so many great songwriters from lck and and Amarillo you know um well I I ended up entering or he entered me into this contest and I ended up winning this contest and that was the it was fortunate for me uh in many ways but that was the last year that the winner of the Larry Joe Taylor contest played or I'm sorry the the blue light live songwriters contest played at this Festival we have in Stevenville called Larry Joe Taylor's Texas Music Festival and uh you know they've had there's been years they've had 40,000 people at this Festival it's incredible it's all it's you know 99% independent Texas songwriters at these stages you know and it these huge parties and um I didn't really know that much about the independent Texas scene or americ scene of course because I was kind of uh I was pretty pretty en entrenched in like this church thing because I'm still working there you know and I win this contest and then I get to go because I won this I get to go play a set at this giant festival and I played that set in April of 2012 and then I quit my last like real day job in September 2012 uh just in that short time man my songs just took on a life of their own that I have I still am surprised by every day you know and since 2012 this is this is the only job I've had is you know writing songs making records and you know mostly playing shows driving around you know here in Texas we have such an incredible live scene so many clubs and venues and just all different types of opportunities to play music here uh you know you can stay on the road full-time which I do and a lot of my lot of my peers down here do uh but it's it's incredible uh for me it's one of those things where songwriting uh it it's always come very natural uh it's never really been a thing I've had to force myself to do um now I have had to be better at you know being a disciplined songwriter and and churning out things um back in 2020 uh I joined this songwriters club and we had to write a song every day or a song every week or they kick you out and uh we had 12 songwriters in there you'd get a you'd get an email Thursday at noon and you have to turn in your song Wednesday by midnight you know uh you have to type up your have to type up all your lyrics you have to do a little uh you even have to make a demo uh you know some type of audio recording you know uh it was it was incredible a lot of my friends were in there and and the peer pressure was great for me uh but you know through that I wrote more songs I've you know ever written uh in that short a time I did 130 songs in two years and uh my newest record mud and sunshine is is from the song Club all of those songs are from song club uh which is what we call it because we're such creative people but uh anyway uh yeah it's my newest record is mud and sunshine it's kind of a it's a uh well I guess you could say it's a concept album my idea was if uh if you got kind of transported back to the mid to late 70s you're riding around in your old muscle car listening to AM radio uh mud and sunshine is my is kind of my vision of maybe what you might hear in an alternative Universe right uh just driving down the highway seeing whatever comes across the airwaves but it's got three projects on uh one vinyl uh there's 20 21 songs on the digital version and uh there's a secret track hidden on the double vinyl so there's 22 on there but the first 10 tracks are kind of a rock record uh but uh very uh what's the word I would say lots of different tastes of rock uh but for sure has that 70s rock feel you know and and then uh the next five or six uh five or six songs are called the uh mud part of the project you know and I was trying to sound like some some of the 70s songwriters that I grew up on like uh James Taylor and Jim cochi and Carol King and things like that and then the last five songs are uh well they're cowboy songs because I grew up in the panhandle of Oklahoma so kind of some country type stuff there's a song on there called feedlot Cowboy so the three projects are Sunshine mud and feed like cowboy and I threw it all together called it mud and sunshine so that's my I was having a good listen to that today mate it's incredible and 21 songs like you say I I was going through and I thought wow this is still going yeah but um but really interesting it had so many different flavors of Music uh for me um pretty much I wrote a comment earlier to say had everything but gangster rap so maybe that could be your your your next uh Alum you know funny I don't want to give I don't I don't want to give too much away but you know when you're writing 130 songs a year you kind of uh stretch into some other things that you haven't necessarily written before and we've got I've got four or five songs that I'm kind of sitting on and there's um a somewhat well-known uh producer over here that I've already been in contact with and we've talked about uh he and I have kind of sent back some humorous email EMS about what would it be like if we just went for this you know we've already got he's already got the songs in his hands so we're in dangerous territory but hey you know probably won't be gangster rap but you know well that seems to be uh popular at the moment isn't it a bit of a rap country but uh yeah not not for me personally but no that's really interesting I I I'm always interested to hear about people's backgrounds and you know you've give us so much there uh only one question I asked you yeah right you give me so much man um so I appreciate that I mean I was talking just before we came on and um I was saying obviously our our mutual friend talbo set us up so thank you to TBO great guy brilliant podcast behind the Jared Morris Vibe and Texas to Tennessee podcast and I think you've been over that that way too um but I was talking to talo um on another platform and I said you know how much professed I love for Adam Hood basically because we're a Fanboys of that dude he said well if you like Adam Hood go and speak to Zack Wilkerson cuz you you'll love his stuff too and he was right he's never wrong ah no tabbo man it's incredible uh you know it's funny I I he's he's a new friend of mine but it's incredible how uh how much music that man knows about and how many he just he's got such uh you know seems like he's got his really does have his finger on the pulse of Music going on over here I'm amazed about how much he knows yeah he's he's incredible he's encyclopedia um yeah but yeah particularly for independ dependent music and I think that's why we get on so well is because obviously this podcast in UK is promply for emerging an independent artists and you know that's kind of where we bonded and thought you know I I like going out to different places we started in the UK at the very beginning of the podcast and then we sort of ventured around most of the US so we've been to Kentucky Virginia Alabama Georgia and you know back to Texas quite a few times to Texas obviously because uh it's such a big scene out there and everybody I speak to I mean we've had a couple of guys on recently um Zach Welch uh and Jacob Bryan Marshall from the Indie scene uh your way too and it's it's interesting to get your kind of perspective on things because you've got big kind of uh places like Billy Bobs and then you've got a lot of independent uh or smaller venues so what is kind of your your thoughts and feelings about Texas as a music scene oh man I gotta tell you like I I'm fortunate I've uh I've played music in 46 of the lower 48 in us and um I've been fortunate to go on tour with some bigger bands and you know I've played in Canada and Mexico there's just not a scene anywhere like the Texas scene um just because so there's well the sheer number of artists is is phenomenal and it seems there's new artists coming out all the time because the the scene really does a good job of kind of uh replicating itself and has new generations and kind of new classes of artists that come along at the same time uh what's really interesting to me is just how many um venues there are in Texas you know um I was in a little bitty town called Bluffdale Texas and I think there's about I want to say six or 700 people in this tiny little town it's a spec on a not large State Highway right it's not a a big place and I was I played a show in that little town and I was playing a small Listening Room which I don't know if you're if you're familiar with the concept of listening rooms but uh you know we have lots of different types of venues here for listening rooms those are sit down um typically the host will tell people hey you are here to listen to this do not talk do not be on your phone you know let's give the artist respect which as an artist it's amazing to go into some place like that it's really incredible uh what I find in those places those fans they know your music you really you really need to come prepared because they know what it's supposed to sound like uh what was interesting about that little town There's this incredible little listening venue there right uh less than a block away there's also about a 500 seater dance hall and my friend it's funny it's funny I'm wearing his shirt Jack Barksdale I don't know if you can see that but yeah Jack Barksdale he's an incredible young man um kind of a what's the word kind of a child Savant musician but uh child progy I should say and um but he was playing at the dance hall right across you know right across the way for his you know his kind of different uh show and stuff he does kind of a variety show there every year so it it's was just kind of funny but even in small towns like that you have a variety of venues you you know and you can go to you know uh live music is such a big part of Texas uh there's so many different genres here um and what's in incredible is there's enough independent venues that really play genre specific music and they all really support themselves you know so there's kind of Texas country bars and there's straight up rock and roll bars you know and there's hip-hop clubs and there all kinds of things you know we've got Billy Bobs and we've got uh which I've played Billy Bobs you know I've got to play Austin City Limits The M the Moody Theater uh things like that but I also get to play little bitty listening rooms which are so fun you know places like the red bird Listening Room and new Bron Falls uh which is really just a tiny house it's just a house uh that my friend Dallas burough bought he's an incredible songwriter singer incredible guy um but he started this little venue you know about half of the seating is old church pews and tiny one room house that they just converted into this little space and about 82 people can fit in that room I think you know but every time I've ever played it it's basically it's usually sold out you know and those 80 so people they're really into the music you know and what's interesting about this uh scene is I feel very fortunate because I'm a I I get to kind of bounce around and do both you know I get to go and play these tiny listening rooms um and then this Saturday I'm playing the Armadillo Palace in Houston uh doing kind of a a post Houston Rodeo party uh so we're expecting quite a few people to come to that and I'll go play that with my Trio you know I have just a bass player and a and a drummer that play with i i play Lee guitar and sing obviously but uh I get to do a lot of different things you know the Texas Music Scene is man I almost hate to let the secret out you know what I mean I don't want too many people coming here to uh you know uh take up what's incredible incredible uh uh place to play music you know but uh I'm very fortunate to be down here for sure yeah yeah that that's that's pretty pry much what a lot of people say you know you're very fortunate with the live music scene there in the UK it's not the same live music is on its knees um and I think you know people going out you know the prices and I think just the way the government controls a lot of things here it it's just kind of squeezed venue so you know it's very difficult for us to kind of go out and experience that and we we've tried to to kind of do this recently with with other um promoters and things to have guys from the US come over like l Rogers and um people recently so so that's what we're trying to do is trying to revive the kind of live music scene here uh I think it's going to take a lot more than us to kind of get on board of that but um yeah Texas hey man everybody helps oh it does mate honestly I think it it takes a village a community and and that's what we're all about it's it's trying to you know not step on one another but just kind of lift each other up and not to sound overly cheesy and like a like a song but uh you know that that's uh that's that's really the same attitude we have in Texas um you know I was at a festival several years ago and there was a very big Nashville star there um I don't want to say her name I don't want to tell her story without without her permission but she was um she was hanging out in one of the kind of our After parties that a lot of us artists have because one very interesting thing about the Texas scene is that the artists know each other and we spend time we actually are friends kind of off the stage off the screen you know what I mean uh sequestered songwriters um that's I don't know if you've heard of that but that was a that was a nonprofit that was started by a couple of friends of mine and we just played really all we did was uh you know when a lot of the clubs were shut down here and things like that and things were slower uh we just played some some songs from our heroes online uh on Facebook you can still find it we left all the videos up but it's funny because this Nashville artist she came to a she came to this festival and she realized wait a minute you guys actually you guys like hang out and like know each other like yes we are we are actually friends like we like each other you know and she was telling us man uh Nashville isn't like this you know it's so competitive uh and it feels so Cutthroat that people can't you know cuz and she was just bewildered we were sitting in this little suite at the top of the you know the Grand Hotel Steamboat Springs and and uh she looked around and there was you know there was probably those that Festival has anywhere between 70 and 90 uh artists every year and in that room that night uh there was probably 40 of the names on the main bill in the same room just hanging out and she said man if if if we did this in Nashville it would take lawyers and managers and there would be con you know contracts and things I said no we just we genuinely love the community you know so I think you're on the right track it's what sustains it's what sustains Texas is just man finding your people finding the people who you know dig what you dig and yeah let's do it together you know life's more fun that way you know I I think I'd have a heart attack or my life would decrease rapidly if if I was in Nashville in around that environment it's too stressful but yeah it's that's kind of the vibe I'm I'm kind of getting in in terms of how like to say Nashville is set up as opposed to to some of the other scenes but no Texas seems like where I'm at home particularly music- wise and Community wise come on down man ah I'd love to mate I'd absolutely love to come out and uh see you guys play um it's brilliant um so other stuff you've been getting up to Zach um I noticed that you've been doing the old Tik Tok lives um so a few of them yeah yeah how you getting on with that what's going on uh you know for me it's interesting I've I've always been one of those people that uh I'm kind of a social media hermit you know I don't you know as beautiful as uh social media can often be there's also the other side of the coin right and uh for me I just I don't know I'm one of those people you know I'm kind of one of those uh well it's funny Tabo and I had this conversation because I said you know I feel I feel like an introvert until I find people who you know I I feel are likeminded you know and I I get along with with and talbo was saying man you're a you're a hybrid you're a little bit of both and and uh for me social media definitely feels that way you know there's a lot of times I'm totally happy just to be on my lonesome but that's not a good way to sell music you know I'm trying to be you know I'm trying to be better uh get out of my shell a little bit more uh you know I'm so fortunate like I said uh all I do is play music uh and if I'm being totally honest um I I feel like I to uh you know when I I grew up on a farm so I grew up working every day right and you worked hard long days every day and now I'm to this point in my life where I work six or seven days a month the rest of the time I'm just hanging out with my family you know I've got three beautiful kids I've been married uh 23 years this year and uh it's like I'm I'm having so much fun just kind of hanging out with all my people and doing the stuff we do I it's funny I'll get to the end of the day and realize oh wait I'm supposed to uh supposed to talk to my phone for a little bit today you know uh and I think I think there's a lot of people who definitely feel that strain you know uh for us I I know for myself as a musician and some of the musicians I've talked to it's such a different uh it's a different art form for us you know I feel totally natural uh walking in you know my favorite place to be is a recording studio you know um when we made mud and sunshine we made it at yellow dog well we we did all the tracking uh had it mixed uh by the guys at yellow dog and uh it was actually mastered at ABY Road um wow yeah uh my friend Dave perel uh at yellow dog he um he's he's an incredible incredible engineer obviously he owns his own Grammy winning Studio but he also is a preferred engineer and and a strings arranger for Abby Rog so he hooked me up with some of his guys uh sea McGee who's worked on he he uh he did all the Beatles Rems so he's kind of knows what he's doing he also yeah he also mastered my record but you know places like that uh Yellow Dog Studios things like that man that's where I love to be that you know a microphone I'm okay in front of a microphone when you add a camera you know uh I just don't know what you know I don't know if you've ever seen that uh have you ever seen the will Ferell movie uh Talladega kns you ever seen it yes a long time ago and he says I don't know what to do with my hands that's exactly how I feel as soon as you put a camera in front of me you know it's like I what do I do you know and it's kind of funny I'm I'm uh I don't know I'm trying to approach it with a little bit more uh little bit more humor less seriousness you know it's funny my life is so beautiful um I my life is so uh just fantastic I have a hard time uh I don't know I guess feeling the need to uh I don't know what is how do I what am I trying to say my wife's my my life is beautiful so I'm not trying to get anything out of social media but there is kind of some things I should be trying to get out of social media if we're being honest it's the Beast you've got to tame sometimes it really is mate you got to feed the as my friend Eric tesser would say you got to feed the schmees oh I I completely feel you on that Zack um I'm bit a bit like you I'm an introvert massive introvert which is what I don't know why I started a podcast because it's kind of an extroverts World almost well I've been watching from the fringes you've done a great job it's it's incredible so yeah I've been very excited to be on this podcast uh I've been telling people about it for well since since Tabo and I talked about it um actually going to play in the UK and Europe that's like one of my bucket lists uh you know my family is is English wilkerson's an English name you know we can trace our family uh back to uh pre-colombian times uh back to England and so I've always wanted to come back and you know uh and play music uh there I've got a lot of friends who've been fortunate enough to play music in Europe and UK and and uh you know guys like uh uncle Lucius and stuff and it's funny because they all say man you got to get there you're exactly what they're looking for you know uh so I would I would love to be there m we'd love to have you mate um we we don't have many artists like you in the UK at all we've got some blues guys and some kind of Soulful uh people but uh you you're kind of the whole in my opinion the whole package um so oh wow thanks man to have you over here would be a dream for us as well mate and we we'll make that happen we'll make that happen sometimes we'll share a Guinness while you're here or beer whatever you're into um but yeah for sure man um so what what their experiences been like of of the UK because I I'm hearing people that have come over to play say it's more people are more kind of in tune with the music they're more listening whereas in America perhaps because you've got more establishments there more opportunities people are it's it's more of a a bar grill type environment absolutely so or a club yeah yeah we have a lot of clubs here you know and I play I play some clubs uh which is you know when I'm with my band it's it doesn't bother me to be in a club with a couple hundred loud drunks because they're they're never going to be louder than us you know what I mean so we just we just play rock and roll and we have a good time you know they can if they want to be part of the show if they want to be in the back being loud whatever we doesn't it's not going to affect us you know uh what I've been told by my friends is that there's just so much uh respect for the music and really um they all bragged on the audiences in that like uh they could tell how rare it was for the audience my friends could tell how because it was such a pre like you say such a precious thing to have one of these bands come through uh over there or for y'all and um and like you said over here and even like I said there's a every little Town's got a loud bar you know and everybody's got you know everybody's got uh a little sound system and they'll cram a you know they might it comes in so many different capacities but it's it's interesting because one one of my friends said it was kind of crazy man because I've I've and he's he was uh it was a different band and they're they're very much like a rock rock band and he said it was kind of crazy because he's not used to getting that much attention from people like for people to be that attentive to what he's doing he's usually you know just out rocking around and yeah it's a little and uh also my understanding is you know Americans we're loud and we're you know we're pretty Brash and especially like in a concert and stuff you know we Americans get loud uh and and they were saying that that uh you know UK and European audiences were just so silent they were just so locked in [Laughter] just you know gazing and uh that that's again that's one of those things it's it's not often that we get that um that's honestly um The Listening Room uh experience what I've been told is a lot like uh kind of the experience y all have over there because yeah there's just uh so much attention given to the artists and the songs and like the audience knows the material they know your songs they know what you sound like um so that's what I've been told which I think part of is part of the reason that I would be excited to be there um I've got one of my mentors um and oldest friends is a gentleman named Walt Wilkins uh I don't know if you're familiar with his music but he is uh man he's kind of like uh the Texas's Artist Artist if that makes sense he's he's written uh dozens of songs for other other acts you know um you know I don't know if you've heard of Pat Green but like Walt Walt Wilkins is mentioned by name in a Pat Green song like that's the kind of guy that Walt is he's like uh Texas's version of gandal okay if there was if there was a alternate uner uh Universe of you know Lord of the Rings that was just Texas like he'd be the guy but uh his music is absolutely incredible you should definitely uh look it up but he goes to Europe I think every year and uh plays a lot of those Listening Room type places which is what he plays here as well you know uh but uh all those people who who've been they've said just the fans are incredible so I would I would love to come and try it out you know see for myself well when I spoke to a couple of the guys that have come over and Rec this year um I have reassured them said we are enjoying it you know we're just listening um we don't tend to dance Too Much either uh unless we've had a few beers and then you know we kind of come out of our shell but yeah it's just reassuring you guys that we are listening we're having a great time just don't worry about us you know we we're good um so yeah you'll definitely have to come over here mate uh we'll set something up um but yeah okay so there's a few other questions I'd like to ask during the show mate um one of the things that I set up recently was a dedicated playlist so for everyone that comes on the podcast or people that we meet uh live out on the venues I I think it's great to have just a couple of songs uh dedicated to you on the playlist so people can if they want to know what the rugged Revival is about or the artists that have come on I think it's a great way to kind of go in and you can listen to you know a whole bunch of tracks that'll be fantastic so for you uh what two songs should should we put on the playlist that kind of represent who you are and would be a good place for people to start uh let's see um well I'll take one off the sunshine side that would be Set Me Free that's a fun song uh on that one I have my friend Johnny keys from Uncle Lucius oh great band yeah uh and Rio tripiano from copper Chief uh and then my bass player and drummer from my band on there um and then I let's see and then I'll take one from mud so we'll do Mud the song Mud uh cool and and that one has also Johnny Johnny's on that that project as well but I went a different direction and I've got uh Cody Brawn from Reckless Kelly playing lots of different instruments on that part of the record so yeah Set Me Free in mud those be good ones yeah oh fantastic I'll get those added at the beginning when I set this up I was kind of just picking my favorites and I thought probably not the way to do it let's speak to the artist and let's say what what would represent you best and you it's great because you come out with different songs and I would have picked so uh it's uh it's really interesting well tell me what songs would you have picked I always like to hear what songs kind of get people's ear I like black top highway on your new one I think it's a fantastic song I love the blues uh I love that sort of feeling um lonely together is it called that one lonely together tonight yeah that's the one it's a bit older it's one of your older tracks isn't it that's from my first EP yeah but that's fantastic that that's one we actually shared on Tik Tok a while back cuz I thought oh this guy is cool man so well so we put that out um so yeah I but it's I suppose they they're quite similarish song so it's great to kind of get your perspective of what you would put on there so we'll get out added mate uh that's what we'll do and other interesting stuff I like to kind of eek out of artists that come on is you know you probably get the question all your time what what's your time favorite song or artist and I think there's been a lot of stuff over the last 10 years um you know with you know new artists coming about new music being released so I think um the best question to ask is what what kind of album or single Have you listened to in the last 10 years uh that's been your favorite or something that's really stood out for you oh wow okay uh you know what I'm going to bring up my friend Johnny Keys again his real name is Johnny John grman uh he plays keys for obviously uh for Uncle Lucius uh he was in he was in the songwriter Club I was in uh and he was also in another songwriters Club at the same time so he was doing two songs a week uh Johnny and I have been friends for years uh he played on he's played on my last two records you know I've got I've got four four records released but he's played on mud and sunshine and Evergreen uh but he put out a record um under a project called sleepy John it's a it's a solo album and these are brilliantly written totally like the you know he's got some of the best players in Texas on these records with him uh because John is you know he's what he's what we call H he's what we call a studio assassin okay he he could just go in and he will kill it in about 10 minutes and then he's on to the next song right he's just in incredible and leaves yeah and yeah on to the next yeah uh he's he's this incredible personality as well but his his record uh I believe it's called let me see I got to find it for real I want to um that record sleepy John that oh man I absolutely love that album um let's see what else you know uh shiny ribs is one of my favorite bands um okra candy that's about that's man it's coming up close to 10 years but candy is is a great record that they put out um let me think what else in the last 10 years uh well uh Silvera you know oh great band yeah yeah they used to be uh Mike and the Moonpies but uh now they're silverada but uh neon that record uh you know you look good at neon that that record is uh that may may not even be the name of the record uh I should know I sing on that record but uh uh but that whatever record that was on um now I gotta find it so you were singing on that record we yeah I did I sang on let me see I got to find I'll see it all Spotify yeah I'm on Spotify right now that's what I'm trying to find out uh they are yeah you look good at neon that's the record um let's see here cheap silver and solid Country Gold that's the record I was looking for that's the name of it uh they actually did that one at Abby uh oh wow okay yeah yeah we have a we have you know quite a few Mutual production friends Adam odor uh Dave pville um just incredible engineers and producers over here um so but that record cheap silver and solid Country Gold is man um I gotta tell you that's that's one of the best sounding records I've heard not in just the last 10 years but I I'd probably go a lot lot longer than that uh I don't know if you're familiar with the record but goodness gracious it's incredible uh let's see what else what else could I think of that's who put out some incredible records man so many of my friends are are always putting out incredible record so I'm afraid to leave any of them out the difficulty isn't it as someone gets left out there will be tast texting you later yeah I'm I'm gonna step into something here if I'm not careful you know gotta be careful about who I leave out uh yeah I've always been kind of a weird uh you know my music isn't really Mainline country even though I just even though I just mentioned one of the best Mainline country bands ever uh so a lot of what I listen to um is weird I don't I don't listen to very much music at all in fact uh there's a songwriter named Jimmy Web I don't know if you've heard of him he wrote the song uh the highway men he wrote uh witch lineman uh kind of a like historic Old School Nashville songwriter lots and lots of cuts but and he had a book that he put out years ago and he talks about when he became a songwriter on a publishing deal he stopped listening to music because he didn't want to copy anyone because we're trying to make new music you know and you don't want to get in some kind of like copyright battle or whatever and um I took that to heart of over a bit over a decade ago and I haven't really listened to much music in fact when I'm driving in my van I usually am just driving in silence uh because the highway is where I write a lot of songs it's just in silence you know I just write him in my head so I don't listen to much so I'm not I'm trying to think of of who else I could throw out there but those are probably three of the best I've heard in the last 10 years there there's some excellent suggestions and I'm always tempted to kind of put another playlist together of the suggestions that we receive because uh yeah that'd be cool there's some there's some fantastic ones there and like you say sometimes there's some obscure ones that just get thrown at us and I thought I I didn't see that one coming so um oh oh Uncle lucious the light I knew I was yes I got thrown off because I talked about Johnny uh yeah Uncle lucious the light that's an incredible that's yeah I knew there was one I was doing fantastic like saying i' I've seen their name pop up in Europe more recently and yeah you know I I'm a big listener of the ranch radio which I keep bigging up on every single bloody podcast that I do but uh but you know that's where I kind of found Uncle Lucius and a lot of these bands and you know they were one of my favorites particular the last couple of years so uh yeah fantastic man we'll uh we'll stick that on a new playlist I think certainly do that and here's going to this is going to be even more difficult for you and uh I always kind of PR preface it by saying you know it's not an endorsement for anyone like you say you're not going to get any text later with anyone complaining but we because we're an inde you know a platform for independent and emerging artists so for us it's like what who who is an emerging musician or band that you've been listening to or following or met out on the road that you think you know our listeners should be watching out for H let's see man gosh I could list you off about 20 people I know that people should be listening to uh let me see gosh trying to think of do you mean like uh when you say emerging are you some saying someone new in the last few years or I I would say somebody that's probably under the radar at the minute and um you know the what's what's the what right word you know it's to say you know they they're not quite on people's Radars perhaps not on the radio stations it's it's more difficult to find them on Spotify those type of artists I think goodness that's a good [Music] question you might have got me uh it's always the one that stumps people yeah it's it's it's interesting because who do you want to uh I'm trying to think of who who I would put in that category you know uh H you got me you got you got me thinking now usually I'm not a loss at a loss for words as you could hear but it's a difficult one like you said I think it's twofold because it's not Technic an endorsement you want to upset people but also it's trying to find people that are in that category as well because you don't want to be I was trying to find a words a minute ago I didn't want to be rude to say Well they're not on anyone's radar but yeah I think they're probably underrated uh under under the radar so to speak uh that people I think should be listening to and we've had some fantastic suggestions before and you know it's uh it's a good question I like to ask anyway just to just to stump you yeah well you know what let's uh let me see here my buddy Steve talbo he sent me let me see here I believe the young man's name is Dustin Perkins okay I think I've heard of Dustin it might have been through TBO show I think it well that's how I found out about him was through tabbo and uh tabbo sent me uh one or two songs that he's got um partly because uh Dustin and I Dustin's gonna open some shows for me uh when I'm out playing my stuff uh but just based on the couple songs I've heard I like what I hear it's you know it's got a definitely got that americon of vibe you know the country is present uh but there's a little bit more uh you know there's a little bit more movement to it maybe you know what I'm saying so uh yeah check out Dustin Perkins like I said I'm not he doesn't have a whole lot out there so that maybe that yeah that's maybe a good he's a good one that's a good way to put it as well you know artists that don't have an extensive catalog um but they've got some fantastic songs one or two or free maybe you know that's they're always good to watch out for and uh fantastic so you mentioned Dustin's kind of supporting you on your your kind of headline shows that you're doing how how do you pick artists that kind of uh support and open up for you how does that process work uh it can happen a different number of ways um you know the most the most common way is having a mutual friend or a direct friendship with somebody and uh that's usually the easiest way to you know there's much larger artists that I open for and it's really only because we've got a relationship kind of outside the music business if that makes sense um so that's kind of the the number one way a lot of times you know the venue will have someone in mind uh like we talked about the scene is constantly constantly replicating itself and so for every small town that has a venue there's one or two young guys trying to make it happen you know little uh young local Hungry guys or GS that just want to go play some songs and so a lot of these venues have you know one or two people kind of built in who who become kind of like the uh house you know the house opener things like that um so I've I've had some people open for me in those ways you know um I do have a booking agency that I worked for I work with now um uh and we have quite a few uh kind of younger uh maybe not as a sta lished artists uh and sometimes it's just through the booking agency you know my my booking agent would just say hey man there's just we're going to put him on this one because we need to get him in this venue here down the road in about nine months like yeah makes sense come on we'll have a party you know uh and then sometimes man it's just uh you just ask every once in a while I got someone he'll send me a message or they'll contact the venue or they'll contact a mutual friend however it works and say I'd really love to come and open this show for you you know and and uh it's interesting because most of the time they're really just asking me for permission you know uh I leave the business between them and the venue because ultimately they're working for the venue you know uh but it it's always a good feeling when you've got younger musicians who you know they look up to enough to say that's the kind of person I want to be open in shows for you know but it can happen lots of different ways you know yeah it's interesting because I I like to understand the kind of mechanics to everything um because being not being an artist but kind of seeing things from a different perspective it's almost like you know how does that work um so that that's great to kind of share with that I think a good question to kind of ask is something away from the music um and you say you got a lot of spare time you spend a lot of time with the family do you have any kind of hobbies or anything that you're into uh away from music that people might be quite surprised about H let's see well it's funny my hobbies are really like uh it really is like guitar and music related you know I build guitars and amps and guitar pedals and stuff like that uh but outside of Music stuff you know um I've got a I've got a 1960 Chevy Corvair that I tinker with you know an old weird old American car uh that I just kind of Tinker with and stuff like that I've always loved engines and tinkering with cars and stuff in fact my first uh I got my first sound system when I started playing music I I uh I traded a a couple M motorcycles that I was building for this for this ba so that I could go and play with my B uh things like that you know I really love uh you know kind of mechanical engineering type stuff um let's see what else you know I read a lot of books which is kind of boring but uh you know one thing I like is I kind of like video games um I don't I don't play them very often but uh it's it is something I kind of mess with quite a you know I I don't sleep much my uh I've got pretty bad insomnia and had it for years and so there's sometimes when I'm trying to find a way to uh fill my time quietly if that makes sense which automatically excludes uh all everything in this room uh but uh uh so sometimes I just you know when I can't sleep I have a you know a waking night I call them uh you know I might just play some video games and stuff like that so that's something I'm into uh but most of the time man I'm just hanging out with my family and you know what I mean I people assume that this life is really just kind of crazy and chaotic and it absolutely is when you are in the midst of the music right yeah and what I find with a lot of my friends who kind of we reach this certain level where we're constantly grinding when we're at home we're kind of all the way at home if that makes sense and it becomes like you know my family we we go out of our way to keep it chill around here like we don't you know what I mean we try not to have too many extra activities and things like that like because when I'm home let's just be home and you know chill and things like that uh so yeah I'm kind of a I'm kind of a boring family man to be honest with you like I just I work on my car and I I play my guitar way too much you know and take my dog and a walk you know just things like that no I completely relate I've got two young kids and that that feels more than the time that I have and uh yeah video games I'm a bit like you I have to kind of fill my my day with something I I find it hard to sit still and you know if if I'm not listening to a podcast when I'm going to bed I can't sleep you know I I have to have something kind of going through my brain constantly so uh I I can relate to a few things there mate my brain went blank a minute ago as you can recall when I was thinking about a question I was like what the bloody hell was I thinking in in that moment it's just come back to me and uh so you you talked about kind of what people think um the kind of life of a touring musician is and you know when I mentioned about the kind of young and and upand coming art sure the question I had was what advice do you have for those guys because I suppose when I speak to a lot of different artists from different stages of their career a lot of you guys have kind of grounded out from the beginning you know it's been a a kind of tough slog and sometimes it continues to be a tough slog but with this kind of day and age with social media I find it interesting to see what the perspective is from a a young artist that might be more in tune and more kind of in touch with social media did they believe that it's it's a quicker route to go viral and to kind of skip certain stages that you can go to bigger audiences or better venues um I mean what what sort of what what's your experiences of that for a start and maybe what uh advice do you have for those uh Young Artists you know um goodness I have so many things to say about that uh the first thing I would say for any Young artist if you're going to get into this business uh my first piece of advice is to get healthy and I mean physically and kind of you know mentally spiritually type thing because physically this job it wants to wreck you like everything about it you're going to be in a van for you know sometimes eight 10 hours a day uh and then you have to go up and you know take your take your body that has just been beat up by the highway for eight hours now take that body up there and give every ounce of energy you have for the next 90 minutes and then right after that there's this eventual kind of it's almost like an ad adrenaline crash right and that can wreck your body physically can wreck your body but that process also can wreck uh kind of your heart and your mind and so get your get your body and your mind healthy to take on all the crap that you're about to encounter that's my first my first piece of advice my second piece of advice viice is you do not need a recording contract you don't need it start your own record label start your own publishing company I own my record label I own my publishing company which means every single Cent that my songs make belongs to me I don't have to pay anyone I don't have to pay anyone back you know uh a lot of people don't know that a a record contract is just uh it's basically Finance it's exactly the same as like financing a home usually the the but usually the the interest rate is uh significantly worse on a record contract and when you get a record contract they are loaning you money to make a record and they are hoping that you can make enough money off that specific recording to recoup the money that they've given you and if you don't your band's out of loss and you are going to be paying money you're going to be playing shows driving down the road selling T-shirts all these things that you have to do and the money is going to be going to people you're trying to pay back and a lot of people get crushed under this idea of old school music business these days um you don't need a record label you are the record label and you don't need Sony music or any of these things uh th those are amazing companies and they do incredible work but what most of what them what they do now is they find people who've already figured it out and they jump on their Train That's the model now uh so you know write your own songs make your own records uh the other thing I would say about making records and this is going to be very antithetical okay no one cares that no one cares if you make a record with ABY Road like that's kind of for music type people you know but the general The General listener they don't know what microphone you have they don't know they're not going to care if you're using logic or you know Protools none of they don't care what they care is did I hear something I like and what I'm trying to encourage kids to do is just make the record do the best you can learn as much as you can you know you can learn anything from YouTube the internet now learn as much as you can but don't uh don't hold yourself back uh from making some music because you think well I don't have thousands of dollars to hire a studio and a producer and all these things I don't think we're in that world anymore and I think uh people can get away with making records that are cheaper faster easier and most fans don't they don't care they don't know they don't care you know uh and I say that as someone who just mastered a record at Abby Road you know you don't you don't need to to do that level of production to get your production out there so that's you know that's just just do it kid just make just make the recording if you got a song that is just if you got a song that you just have to get out just get it out you know and if it's great it's great the best way to learn to make amazing art is to make shitty art every day that's the best way to do it that's the best way to learn so just make it just be prepared to fail you know I will be uh clipping that part mate yeah but I the last thing I would the last thing I would uh would say is um if you're wanting to play music do it for the right reason and you really have to you know that self-defining you know I I've been told for years you you define your own success and I believe that I believe that wholeheartedly now um you know I don't I don't play a lot of uh like Arenas and things like that it happens every once in a while where I play play a a huge show like that um you know I played quite a few festivals for I just played Outlaws and legends in abalene uh you know we had a few thousand people out there uh but you know this this well how do I say this I'm not sure how to say this [Music] um well my thought has kind of changed now but well you know just be you know kind of get out there and play is is one of the things I was going to say and you define your own success uh don't you know don't let small opportunities hold you back because they're small go after them you know uh especially when I was starting out no it felt like no room was too small uh now there's a certain point when you want to start uh directing yourself out of those smaller rooms uh especially if you're playing a tiny room for tips you know I play Tiny rooms now for a pretty high ticket price so small rooms aren't all that bad but you know just get out there and do it don't you know don't let anything hold you back just and use the internet use what we got get yourself out there you might you might be surprised and find some people you know yeah that that's the flip side of social media we talked about taming the Beast and but like you say I think with everything at your fingertips now you don't even need a marketing company you you can be the marketing company um you know if you got the time and the inclination it's it's all there so that's fantastic advice mate I think that's that's so great for For Young Artists to hear certain things around that to say actually you can do it and doing it for the right reasons you know there's a lot of artists that we speak to say very similar things you know don't write a song because you think it will sound good at Red Rocks because whatever you come out with will probably sound so y you know do it for for because you like it you know and then if you like it someone else will kind of gravitate towards that sure that reminds me of another piece of advice I should have given earlier is that uh you just uh you just reminded me that one thing I tell young songwriters all the time is be very careful about what you write because the best possible outcome is you're going to play that song every night for the rest of your life that's the best possible outcome right so you have to be careful about what you write uh I know that a lot of Young Writers um uh they want to write a kind of a party song and uh especially when you're a young you know a young person you know here 21 is when you can legally drink you know so about that age is uh what I've seen is there's kind of this idea of like it would be great to have a party song and you know an Anthem a beer drinking Anthem type thing and I'm not I am not disregarding those types of songs but I will tell you that I know artists uh that 15 years ago when they were 20 they wrote a a party record and now they're close to 40 and uh they're trying to sell party music Still and uh you just have to be careful because the like I said best possible outcome is you're going to be stuck with the song so write songs you really believe in you know uh just yeah just be very careful about what you uh you know how do you how do you want to be how do you want to be known for the for the next 20 years maybe or the next five or so uh it could you might you might strike gold and you might be playing these songs for a minute you know I'll be honest with you I never expected my career to last this long and to grow the way it's grown uh most of my fans aren't on social media it's very interesting because I have an incredible fan base and um we've done some demographic studies and stuff for my music and and the people who do listen to my music they don't uh they don't spend as much time on the social media platforms um but they still found me and I say all that to say is even if you don't have this giant you know what we feel like is just lifechanging success you know I think we all daydream about that you know waking up one morning and checking your numbers overnight and like oh wow I went viral or something even if that doesn't happen you can still find your people you can still find the people to supporting you music so you just got to get yourself out there that's true you know we we've kind of found a a click of people that are into kind of what we do it's not huge numbers and I've said before we're not into collecting people because it feels weird after a while you know you're looking at numbers kind of totting up and think yeah it's all great but what does it actually mean if you know actually mean yeah you know you want you want engaged you know numbers not just High numbers but for me engaged numbers you know otherwise what's what's it all for what are we doing yeah what are we doing um so no fantastic advice mate I I really appreciate you sharing that um I think I think the next kind of segment would be good just to kind of cover off you know what projects you might have coming up anything you can reveal to us that uh you're working on well uh like I mentioned uh with song club uh I've got you know so many songs written that I'm just kind of sitting on now um I have the next four records uh in pre-production already uh just because that's so many you know I put out 22 21 songs on mud and sunshine that still leaves another 110 10 of these songs that we did through this club uh I'm not saying I'm going to use all of them uh for sure there's there's quite a few funny songs on there which is ironically the we would write songs in the club just to stay in the club sometimes you know it was very loose that way and uh it became kind of this unspoken rule is like man if you can't write something like deep and serious this week write something silly and funny and uh I actually got some really great funny songs out of that club just just honestly just by trying to not get kicked out uh and I've I've thought about putting out these funny songs you know uh just as a super kind of um I do like a quick and dirty release not even like a full record release just just kind of maybe make one post about it and just throw them out there you know but I do have there's there's two records uh in particular uh about 20 about 21 songs again uh that I'm uh really feeling are going to be the next um the next project I put out uh and it'll be you know a mixed genre project as well uh this one's going to be about you know about 10 songs of one and about 10 songs of another so a little bit less split up than mud and sunshine but uh one one one of one of the records really pushes back kind of to my 2014 EP so a bit more like uh poor man blues or middle of the night those types of songs and then um another record the other record I'd like to do is well it's it's different from anything else I've ever done it'd be more of like a kind of a alternative um almost like an alternative pop adult contemporary type record um much more based on song writer type ideas than Groove if that makes sense so those are the two that I think are going to be the next two but like I said I've got the next four or five just kind of all just sitting there waiting so you're nothing but prolific mate you know I'm I'm intrigued to see especially the funny ones come out as well yeah right you know what's funny is one of the one of the funny songs uh I actually put it on my Tik Tok it's called dog is because that was all the that was all the prompt we got and so maybe if you want to hear what that funny album would kind of sound like dog is a pretty good uh indication of what those Silly Songs would be it's on my Tik Tok it's on my Tik Tok somewhere uh we'll dig that out yeah yeah absolutely mate but uh what about collaborations then are the kind of tracks that you're doing is it all kind of um you and your band anyone else kind of surprising coming in to kind of work on any tracks with you well uh it's you know I really like taking my road band with me to the studio both my my my bass player my normal bass player is Cole bingfield and my normal drummer is Nathan Z and those guys are just man they are just so proficient uh incredible musicians and we've been playing several years together now so they kind of know they kind of know what moves I'm going to make before I make them uh so they're able to follow you know I I'll probably continue to work with John Gman for the rest of both of our lives uh so you know he's kind of he's kind of just an assumed to be on all of my recordings you know now um and then really just there's so many people that I really like to collaborate with what's interesting uh on this uh on the first record I talked about that's a little bit more Groove based we've been having some conversations about having uh probably fewer people on it we were we're kind of want to approach it like an old mtown production uh very sparse lots of space lots of wide open Sound uh and to get that typically you have to have fewer people involved just to leave space so on that one we're going to do it that way man it's really incredible I have so many musicians uh that I can just that we have access to like I talked about the community is so intertwined and everyone works with everyone everyone's kind of on everybody else's records and things like that um yeah it's I don't know there's a lot of people I like to I like to work with you know okal Lucius we've talked about uh doing a couple runs together uh later on this year um my friend Matt Hillier uh from 1100 Springs he was in that song Club as well in incredible incredible prolific writer just love what he does you want to talk about Mainline old school country you know kind of a rockabilly feel even gosh you guys yeah Matt Hillier 1100 Springs incredible but he and I we're going to probably do a uh uh probably do a solo well how do you say it a CO a song Swap tour I guess is a good way to say it so we'll both go out without our bands just he and I together and play some of those listing rooms uh looking at probably the east coast of the US uh doing that later uh I think that's maybe late summer early fall but that's what I've got coming up you know and just you know here pretty quick uh but you know there's always man I I'm fortunate I get to play music with a lot of really cool people so collaboration is one of those things that happens it can happen to the drop of a hat around here you know uh you might get a call and say hey what are you doing tomorrow I'm like well I'm off you know well can you want can you come play guitar on this record or come sing or you know I've got a couple uh co-producer credit credits that way just uh like midnight River choir I'm not sure if you're familiar with that band incredible kind of a Texas Groove band uh man they're they're awesome but uh you know got got a co- co-producer credit on one of their records just hanging out at the studio and giving ideas and helping kind of herd cats kind of keep keep the thing going you know but yeah collaboration is one of those things I'm always open to uh I would like to do it more but I am I'm usually so caught up doing my own thing yeah you know it's sometimes hard you know I I I'm I'm very fortunate I'm thankful I'm kind of in that type of I'm kind of in that type of uh routine now where it's like uh you know if you if you want to do something you kind of have to catch up with with whoever you want to do it with because we're all we're all working you know yeah most of the time I only see my friends if we're playing a show together you know so like that Festival last week I got to play with Max Heather stalling they're two of my oldest friends sequestered songwriters type people I don't know if you know them Max and Heather stalling oh my gosh Max is an incredible like I said traditional country songwriter and singer and his wife Heather plays fiddle and they they're just incredible together but you know I only get to see them when we are working together so but yeah collaboration is the best so I'm I'm I'm really open to it I would like to do some things kind of outside my scene know you know like we were talking about the uh like maybe a gangster rap probably not a ganger R but uh I'd really like to make an R R&B record uh and I'd like to use a producer an engineer a studio and all musicians that are totally outside of people I work with constantly right and not because I'm trying to get away from them but I would you know just there's so much music to be had uh I would hate to myself you know so for sure that would be really interesting to hear an R&B track because a lot of you know the songs that you do have elements of that anyway but uh right take it a one step further would be an interesting project it's funny uh a few years ago I was with a few of my friends uh in the studio setting and we were kind of it was it was when this song Club was still actively happening so I'm still writing all these different things and and uh one of my friends mentioned yeah I think it would be great if you made a record uh they were they were trying to get me to make a like traditional blues record like just just 10 songs of not even trying to not even trying to put in the other stuff that I always shove in just make a straight blues record and I thought man I that that sounds hilarious to me and and then as more people it kind of got around our little circle people started talking oh oh that'd be fun let's do that you know I I could see the same thing taken off if I started telling people I wanted to make a like a R&B hip-hop record I could see some people saying oo you know let's get we uh we could have some fun with the album cover you could either be in a white suit or you can have the big chains you know I think we'll uh we'll have some ideas flowing then yeah I'm not sure you're going to get me in big chains maybe maybe a white suit maybe I we'll try mate um yeah and just a couple of final questions mate um you you interestingly mentioned you know a lot of your fans and the your community are not necessarily online and one of the questions that we kind of put to people is how can we best support you either whether it's online or in person what what kind of works for you guys as artists that that we can you know as a community do to help you sure um man the biggest things uh it really is your dollars you know uh it's a ition and your dollars that help out the most and so you know if you can just talk about an artist if there's an artist you find believe it or not with all the social media and all the you know we're in the information and communication age but people still will listen to a band if their friend tells them Word of Mouth it still works that way it's crazy we have all these all these amazing tools and it still takes like your friend going hey you need to listen to Adam Hood oh okay I'll do it you're right right it's crazy but you know tell your friends about the stuff you love that's a huge one um uh buying merch is one of functionally the most helpful things you can possibly do and I tell people all the time uh go ahead and you know people people say that they feel guilty or whatever about streaming right because they know that kind of the artist it does not getting a great deal on streaming right but I tell people you know if you buy you know if you spent 20 bucks on a t-shirt you have basically just bought yourself a license you know if we're going off of spotify's pricing at 0.00003 cents per Spin and you give me 20 bucks for a t-shirt you've bought yourself a lifetime license to spend Me on Spotify for the rest like you've basically paid for millions of spins so just go for it you know uh t-shirts buy a CD buy a record buy a hat whatever it you know whatever you can do those things they they make all the difference for us uh and really kind of the big one is going to the shows um I know a lot of people um they like to support the music kind of from afar you know they don't necessarily see themselves going out to a club or whatever they've you know I have some fans uh you know they don't they they don't necessarily like to go to the loud bars right I'm fortunate because then they can come to my quiet Listening Room shows right but the biggest thing is find a way to get there in person uh because as an artist you know butts in seats is still the thing that makes us the happiest and not necessarily because each of those butts bought a ticket but because each of those people is listening they're those each of those people are listening and so uh that that that is the biggest thing for us it also helps the venue Cu uh I know that I have some surprised some venues before because they see maybe my social media numbers I've you know my streaming numbers and things they're not they're not exorbitant but uh what I find is that when you find loyal fans you don't necessarily have to have millions of them you know uh Walt Wilkins told me one time man if you can find 10,000 loyal fans you'll never work again that's all you need to support you and if you can be honest with yourself and your fans and you know live small live humbly be responsible don't go out buying Yachts you know just uh you know look at this kind of as a blue collar thing you'd be surprised how often you can you know just find some people who will support what you do you know yeah I I'm in it for the yacht personally so yeah me too I'm still working on it one of these days one of these days I mean I'm I'm right in in the middle of England so let's no water around me but I'd still love to own a yacht you know that be I'm in Dallas we're about 10 hours from the ocean so yeah oh you beat me there mate um that's great you know we're always trying to find ways to kind of support people and you know it's interesting to hear the different uh ways we can do that um I'm a merch Hound anytime I go to the gigs I grab a hat normally cuz I just love collecting trucker hats t-shirts uh Koozies is a a new one that I was introduced to last year from you Americans uh I think it was Anna Scott said she she had some Koozies for S what the hell is a koozie um so we don't tend to use those things here okay they're pretty cool man um so yeah when you when you're over it obviously bring your t-shirts and stuff and vinyl's a big one as well I think kobby T Helms brought a bunch of that must weigh a ton to bring you know any yeah so it's a yeah vinyl is quite of uh I think vinyl is one of those things uh most people don't realize it but uh vinyl is one of the most uh production heavy parts of what we do I'm very fortunate uh one of my best friends in the world is Joe Fink and he's the artist relations for handdrawn pressing in Addison Texas and uh they're a independently owned vinyl press here in Texas and and they've you know they press my records they do Silvera uh but but Joe also works with you know onup to like Lady Gaga and Eminem he he makes their records and stuff so uh vinyl man it's a lot of work it's a lot of work to make a record and then to get that record on to vinyl is a whole another bit of work but it is so I think it's so worth it you know um it's it's still one of my most uh popular items I think people still love to yeah to have something in their hands it's the it's the tactile sensation of holding it you know and uh my record uh mud and sunshine is uh it's on random color so we don't know what color your disc is until there's two we don't know what they are until we open it and pull them out and look so it's kind of fun kind of like a you know kind of like you know when I was in in America we used to have like little toys in the cereal it's kind of like that you know it's like you dig to the bottom and it's kind of like that everybody buys a record like oh what did we get you know so yeah vinyl is one of the coolest things I think uh and you know buying vinyl is huge that's a yeah by vinyl and Koozies whatever whatever folks bring the lot mate that's what we say so uh Happy Days Well we'd love to see you over like we keep saying um but yeah I I've really enjoyed speaking to you Zach um you're such an interesting guy you've got so much going on and I implore everyone to go and listen to your music um because it's incredible you know we're huge fans we we look forward to putting your your two tracks on the new playlist yeah so we'll get that added tonight and um is there any kind of closing remarks or anything you want to kind of plug or add that that perhaps we haven't covered I know we've gone through a lot yeah we have uh man you know just keep listening uh I've got four records out there uh hope everybody will dive in and hopefully they could find something they can use something that something that uh works for them you know uh but yeah thanks for uh I would like to say thanks for supporting independent songwriters and artists out here uh you know it it it makes a huge difference for guys like me to be able to just you know share my music anywhere I can so I'm I'm very thankful for you sir and I appreciate you very much no I appreciate you mates it's h it's been an honor but uh so this is a fun part of the show I don't know if you have a a drink to hand mate there we go um there you go almost the same as me um so what we do is we raise the toast to the grit the grind and to the Revival thanks everyone for listening Cheers Cheers
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